Five Things Every Divorce Professional Needs to Know on How to Go Head-to-Head with a Narcissist in the Courtroom
An interview with Ilyssa Panitz
A word keep hearing over and over in divorce is “narcissist,” a disorder where an individual needs constant admiration, doesn’t care about anybody’s feelings other than their own, cannot handle criticism, and has an overinflated ego/sense of entitlement. Divorce professionals are quickly getting educated on how best to help their clients who are trying to divorce a narcissist because they also seek ways to torture their victim, drive up legal bills, delay the process, play the victim, and lie to everyone including their lawyer and the Judge by going to extremes to convince they court they are innocent. The trick to outsmarting a narcissist and prevailing for your client, should the narcissist be on the opposing side, is understanding “what to expect inside the courtroom” and be armed with proof to expose their lies. Lisa Zeiderman is a managing partner at the New York-based firm Miller Zeiderman and has represented hundreds of clients in the middle of these high conflict situations.
Ilyssa Panitz: How do you recognize a narcissist such as their behavior and their patterns?
Lisa Zeiderman: Narcissists generally lack empathy for others including their closest family members, have a grand sense of grandiosity, are extremely charming, charismatic, and will lie to your face. Most often, they put themselves and their needs front and center and certainly before the needs of their children and their partner. Narcissists will lie about their finances, often have extramarital affairs, and do what they can to promote their self-interest.
Ilyssa Panitz: Based on your experience with these cases, how does someone try to negotiate with a narcissist?
Lisa Zeiderman: First and foremost, you must be prepared for the negotiation. That means make sure that you have counsel who is going to watch your back. Your counsel must be capable of conducting full discovery of the assets, liabilities, income, and debt. You cannot count on the narcissist to deal fairly so you must be sure that you come to the table with full knowledge of the finances and an excellent advocate. You must recognize that a narcissist has no qualms about lying so be sure fact check. While this may be a controversial concept, I would not recommend mediating with a narcissist. You need a strong litigator, who can push your charming, charismatic bully back. You do not want to be alone in the room where it happens – be in that room with your attorney as the narcissist is likely very capable of charming the mediator.
Ilyssa Panitz: When you are before a Judge, how do you get the court to spot the difference between your client and the narcissist, who is the opposing side?
Lisa Zeiderman: You must remember that a divorce action is not a sprint—it is a marathon. Your Judge may not see through the narcissist early on, but also you need to persevere and allow your attorney to craft your case. You will get there but you need to remember that Judges cannot make decisions without evidence. That takes time and discovery, depositions, and perhaps even a hearing/trial. Be ready to think on your feet so that you deliver a powerful cross-examination of the narcissist.
Ilyssa Panitz: Can you explain how to maintain control if a narcissist is your client?
Lisa Zeiderman: If you are representing a narcissist, set the ground rules. Make sure the client understands that lying is not an option and that the first lie means you will not represent the narcissist. Why? Because your reputation is all you have, and words matter. You need to make it clear that you will not lie to your colleagues or the Court. Nor will you be placed in a position where you are not advocating truthfully. Additionally, work collaboratively with the narcissist’s therapist. While you likely can’t change the narcissist, you can make a difference so that the narcissist can learn to put the best interests of the children first.
Ilyssa Panitz: Describe how to depose or cross-examine a narcissist when they will not answer your what you ask and tap dance around your questions?
Lisa Zeiderman: Be prepared – that is the key to any deposition. Have the exhibits prepared in anticipation of the lies that you will likely hear. Catch the narcissist in their lies and point it out as you move through the questions. Remind the witness that their answers can be used to impeach their credibility at a trial of the matter.
Ilyssa Panitz: What do you wish every divorce professional should know about this topic, so they are better prepared to handle these situations?
Lisa Zeiderman: Divorce professionals should learn that preparation always matters. If they come unprepared to the table, the narcissist will take full advantage and control. It is only when the narcissists realizes that they no longer have control, that their charm will no longer carry the day, that the narcissist will settle the matter.
